Just wanted to give you all a little heads-up regarding Roger's recent observations over at "Roles, Rules, and Rolls." Definitely some of the most pertinent reflections on the utter embarrassment of riches that the current classic D&D gaming renaissance has been blessed with...and how people can take absolutely anything for granted.
"The sight of the recently released 300 room Barrowmaze being docked points on Grognardia for not being big enough to be a true megadungeon - I guess that makes it more of a what? Macrodungeon? Kilodungeon? - reminds me that we didn't even know what the hell a megadungeon was in 1982...Really, what we're doing under the banner of the Old School Renaissance is much cooler than 99% of our actual old school experiences with D&D."
Amen! I was reminded of this principal yet again when I stumbled across a recent message board thread where a poster lamented that Michael Curtis' superb Stonehell dungeon is, as yet, "unfinished." There's only what, 700 or so rooms detailed so far? Geez.
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Lmao! Agreed 100%! They sure beat the "massive" 40 and 50 room dungeons my friends and I were scratching out on graph paper back in the day.
ReplyDeleteI just took aquick look at Tomb of Horrors and White Plume Mountain, btw, they both have about 30 rooms or so. Lol.
I do love to be spoiled though....
This is exactly why I have argued that we are in the midst of a golden age...embarrassment of riches indeed!
ReplyDeleteThe OSR is the coolest thing in role-playing right now.
ReplyDeleteI took that poster to task, but he was resolute in his criticism of Stonehell. Just moronic imo, but anyhow. You're absolutely correct though, we have no idea how good we have it right now. Just for example, I have to turn way people from my Fri night game, srsly, I could have 12 played if I wish and I'm playing a 25 year old game. No wonder WotC has their panties in a wad.
ReplyDeleteAs impressive as the macro/mega/tera-dungeons are, I don't find them as inherently useful. I'd much rather have a pile of pico/nano/micro-dungeons that I can easily grab and use in my campaign. Sitting down with Stonehell or Barrowmaze or Mad Archmage is implicitly committing to using the whole thing as the centerpiece for (a significant segment of) your campaign, and I can't commit like that (ask Dr. Phil why).
ReplyDeleteWell, Stonehell specifically is designed as a sort of compromise between megadungeon and modular mini-dungeons. Specifically, each dungeon level is divided into four quadrants, each with it's own name and theme. So all you have to do in theory is delete the corridors that connect a quadrant to its neighbors and you have a self-contained dungeon. So you might actually want to check Stonehell out. Could be what you're looking for.
ReplyDeleteI suppose, to be fair, no one recognizes a Golden Age until it has passed and can be lamented.
ReplyDeleteI think the problem is more that the D&D game, with the advent of group discussion and analysis, must bear more weight than it's accustomed to... the game workings and adventure design until recently only being explored within the confines of a few tables or (at best) a game shop or convention hangout.
ReplyDeleteInstead of a house-rule being considered between a player and a DM, or the "megadungeon" being the biggest one the DM ever drew, it's now your vision won't even be considered unless it's published in hardcover for to be scrutinized as a product.
It's not something to worry about... no need to needlessly compare the two. Most people following the OSR have probably heard of Stonehell and Dwimmermount by now. The local offline AD&D club of Some Local Town has a big dungeon of 160 rooms and it's considered the masterpiece of macro design. No damage done to the hobby, I think, except the pain of over-analysis for some.